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See You In The AM: A Mental Health Podcast

See You In The AM:
A Mental Health Podcast

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode: Success with Your Enneagram Type with Kristen Edwards

Show Notes

"Wherever you are using it as a starting point, it's for the focus of self-awareness and growth. It's not just taking a quiz to take a quiz, it's to say, I'm taking this to have a foundation to know where I want to improve in my life or business next."

In today's episode, we will discuss success secrets and how to leverage your enneagram type with Aspyn Coach Kristen Edwards. Kristen is a professional coach focused on training entrepreneurs, students, and professionals to become confident leaders.

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Transcript

Allie Nickle: 

Hello and welcome to the See You in the AM podcast,where we explore the many facets of mental health and wellness,share our personal experiences,interview mental health experts,and offer practical tips and resources to help you prioritize your mental wellness.I'm your co-host,Allie Nickle from Aspyn Market,and I'm joined by my friend,business partner and founder of Aspyn Market Wynter Johnson.We know there are a lot of mental health resources out there and it's overwhelming to find the right resources that fit your needs,time and budgets.So we're here to help.In each episode,we'll talk with one of Aspyn Market's mental health experts,and dig into a mental health topic that we know so many of us struggle with.In today's episode,we'll discuss success secrets and how to leverage your Enneagram type with Aspyn Coach Kristen Edwards.Kristen is a professional coach focused on training entrepreneurs,students,and professionals to become confident leaders.Leaders.Excuse me.Hi,Kristen.Thank you so much for joining us.

Kristen Edwards: 

Thank you,Allie.Thank you Wynter.

Wynter Johnson: 

Before we dive in,Kristen,do you wanna tell us a little bit about you and your coaching and really what you focus on?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so I became obsessed with the Enneagram,similar to anyone who finds their favorite quiz or their favorite type of coffee drink.Like it's just one of those things you're like,More,more and more.And so,you know,like many people who end up in the mental health field,we all felt like something was wrong with us and that we were the weird ones.And you know,for me it was trying to understand myself.Um,and so used to think I wanted to be a doctor,cuz that's how you help people in terms of like,literally being a pediatrician,slowly realized there's more ways to help and serve in our world.And for me it became a career in HR and helping people to find the professional success as a recruiter,as a training and development.A lot of that specialized in the DEI space and because,um,You know,my two most recent things in corporate were technology and financial services that also included women and their professional journey.And so a lot of my own personal story was how I started to help others.And so combine that HR experience with the master's in psychology and figuring out life for myself as,as most people go through,as you know,an adult.It was really finding that way of how do I bring this all together,that it makes sense.And when I stumbled upon the Enneagram in2018,I had a friend text me and say,do you know your type?Go take the quiz.And it was like almost this weird,like,how do you know what's happening in my brain?You're a quiz like.Please explain.Went on that deep dive,like I need to know everything eventually to get certified so I truly could know everything,but it was just an opportunity to unpack,how do I gain that self-awareness to become the best version of myself so that I can be great and serve people in my corporate environment,at home,in my community,and all the things.So that's why I love doing what I do,but it's also why I am so excited for other people to be able to take the Enneagram and apply it to their business too.

Wynter Johnson: 

I love that.I love your enthusiasm over it and the fact that you describe it as like they're seeing into you and they know about you.Um,I'm really excited to learn more about this.And there are some of those personality profiles where you're like,how did they do this?Like,how the science behind how they can group personalities together and yet you feel so individualized and understood is really fascinating to me.I,I love,I love it.Um,so can you tell us more,I love that you're certified in the Enneagram as well.Can you tell us more about the science behind it?What's it's based,what it's based off?And I'm sure that as a coach you've tried other personality models,um,and profiles,and what is it about the Enneagram that you really love?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so a part of my own,you know,as I mentioned that journey of just self-discovery,I started with Myers Briggs like most of us do in kind of high school and college.Um,and the Myers-Briggs was literally pulled out of someone's back pocket and was not rooted in psychology,which is.Fine,it's its own thing.Um,as I started my corporate career,I actually moved to the DISC Assessment,um,and using that profile.But one of the things about Myers-Briggs and DISC is that both of those types can change over time as you mature as a person,um,your Myers-Briggs type can also kind of change is based on life happening and your DISC type very much aligns to the type of job you have,if you're the leader,the CEO,you will default having a D in DISC.Cause it's your job to show up and make stuff happen.If you're a very administrative person,you'll see that S or C characteristics come out of DISC and so you'll ebb and flow.If you started as the admin and then became the boss eventually a CEO,over time your DISC type would change and your Myers-Briggs is changing.And what I love about the Enneagram is that that type doesn't change.So the Enneagram itself is a super ancient thing.It's literally Greek for meaning diagram of nine.Um,and what people found is,although no one actually knows where it came from and how it evolved,it was the one thing that was rooted in truth,it was always backed by psychology.As every psychologist kind of historically went through and tried to tear it apart,they were like,we can't,it works.It makes sense.Um,but a lot of these other personality types try to put you in a box.They try to say you are an introvert or an extrovert.The Enneagram just speaks to your natural desires.What are the things that motivate you?What are the things you're seeking in life?What are the things that really scare you?Freak you out,trigger you at times,but at the end of the day,it's still a circle,and so you can look like different numbers at different moments in time.As women,we might look like four different numbers in a particular day just because there's so many emotions that are happening at your core.You'll always have that desire that you're going back to,and I'll dive into some of those numbers and what they mean soon,but at the end of the day,we're all human.We all use our heart,our head,and our body that's connected.And so as weird as that Enneagram looks,and I grew up super,super Christian,so the Enneagram was something I'm supposed to basically run away from and how that symbol looks.Um,but it always connects us back to who we are.At the end of the day,we're humans.And so that's why I like the Enneagram more than some of the other ones cuz it's not about putting you in a box,it's just helping you to unpack what you are,who you are,and how you were made to be.

Wynter Johnson: 

I love that and I love,do you find,well,and I love that you said it doesn't change over time and I was really curious about the other personality profiles and if they do change and mine personally have been pretty consistent throughout the years.But as you answer those questions,you really wonder and you have your per your personal I.Uh,personality and your professional personality.And d do you find that the Enneagram stays really consistent across both of those?

Kristen Edwards: 

It absolutely does.And so it's one of those weird things because,um,as I mentioned,you know,in different seasons you can look like something,and even in a particular day we will always have the same core desire,but you might not be willing to speak that desire to upset your parents or to yell at your kids where you might be willing to tell'em how you feel when you walk into the workplace or the exact opposite.Right?I'll tell my family every single thing that I'm feeling,thinking and seeing,and at work I stay quiet.It doesn't mean that those thoughts aren't there.And so the Enneagram is speaking to what you truly desire,not if you said it out loud or not.Um,one of the examples that I used in terms of knowing Enneagrams broken into triad.So I mentioned before your head,your heart,and your body,also known as like your gut instinct.Um,if you've ever been fired from a job,we all have had one of those experiences.And whether you quit or they told you to exit the door,were you the person who was ready to cry,crawl under the table,hide,like don't know what to do.Were you in your head thinking,how am I going to convince this person to give me back my job?They were the one that's wrong.Or did you kind of just wanna like sucker punch the person?Like,how dare you fire me?What is wrong with you?How I feel you?Depending on how professional you are,you know,for legal reasons not to hit anyone,you probably held it together and waited until you got into your car before you started crying.Um,and maybe you were relieved that they fired you cuz you wanted to quit but didn't have the guts.Right?Or maybe you thought,I deserve this job,but I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong.Right?And so all of those things can be happening,but you probably just picked up your stuff and walked out.But,How do you know which one you are?Like are you head centered and are your thoughts running a million miles an hour?I'm a type A,I'm part of the gut triad.I wanted to punch probably everyone at some point.Right.But I also know never do that.Like I'll not hurt you.Violence is not an answer to things,and so it's what are you drawn to what is that natural reaction that you have,not how you actually carried it out.So those things will always be there and true for you.But again,will you say what you're really thinking to your family but not at work will you?Or the exact opposite,depending on kind of how confident you feel in a particular environment.

Wynter Johnson: 

Isn't that really similar?One of the things that I've always learned in coaching and therapy is that every person has a natural series when it comes to think,act,feel,and that feels very similar to head,heart,body,which of those is your first natural reaction?And once you kind of pinpoint your order and your,your kind of go-to mechanisms there it really is interesting how you can realize,okay,I'm in my act stage right now,or I'm in my think stage right now and like how you move throughout them is really fascinating and watching others move throughout them is really fascinating.

Kristen Edwards: 

Yes,absolutely.A hundred percent correct.

Wynter Johnson: 

Um,okay.So before we dig into the numbers,um,and walk through those,where is,so I went online,found a couple different places to take the Enneagram and they all had very different questions.So where is your favorite place or what do you recommend?Um,Where do you recommend people go to take this,this test?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so truthfully,I,I will have an answer for you,but truthfully,it doesn't matter where you take the test.What matters is if you're being honest,when you take the test,are you taking the test to please the teacher,to make someone think that you're X or Y?Are you being honest with yourself when you take it?I am an affiliate with Truity,so I do love their test.I also love the information that they give you after you've taken it to understand your type,how your type interacts with others.Um,and so that's one of my favorites.And then in a corporate setting,Chrystal Knows Crystal and then K-N-O-W-S,um,are,so those are the two platforms that I think give really good information and resources,both free and create paid for people to really understand their personality types.Truthfully,though,again,like a test is a test,it's not what the answers are is,is are you being honest with yourself when you take that test?

Wynter Johnson: 

Okay.We'll have to share links to both of those in the descriptions for this.

Kristen Edwards: 

Absolutely.

Wynter Johnson: 

Uh,okay.Do you wanna dive into the numbers and really walk us through those?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so as I mentioned before,this is like a crazy chart with arrows and lines going all over the place.And the thing that I love most about the Enneagram is that it is a circle.We're all interconnected.And so even once you know your core type,um,it's not that crazy once you start to understand.And so,yes,there's nine numbers on the Enneagram,um,but focus on who you are and how you're called to show up in this world and not trying to be a different number.And I say that one from personal experience.The first time I took the Enneagram,I,you know,kind of cheated and looked at the types,and I was like,I'm going to be a number four.It's not how that thing works.Took it four times.I still came out the same number,which is not a four.Um,but being a theater geek fours are the individualists.And so that's what I want it to be.Um,but when you look at the Enneagram,again,you start with your triad.So with or without a test,everyone here can actually kind of go through and see what type they are.So starting with your triad,there's the heart centered,um,group.Those are your twos,threes and fours.There's your head centered,your five,six and sevens and your gut or body centered.Um,people use those two interchangeably.But as you said,in kind of psychology terms,think,act,and feel.What are you drawn to first?And so that's the triad that you'll be aligned to.And that gut one is eight nines and ones.And for anyone who's like me,who's like,why doesn't it start with one?I didn't create it and I'm so sorry that it doesn't start in order.But starting with our twos,threes,and fours part of your heart centered,um,your twos are known as the helper.They like to serve.They like to give.They will literally give you the shirt off their back to make sure that you are taken care of.Your threes are known as the achievers.They want you to see how great they are.They're the person who,on a Zoom call has all of their diplomas over their head so you can just know how accomplished and wonderful that they are at the work that they do.That all the letters come after their name because they have all of the letters behind their name.Um,and they really want people to see how great they are at achieving success,whatever that might look like.For them,whether that's sports,a professional,a degree,um,owning a business,it can be a wide variety of things.And then your four is known as the individualist.They go out of their way to make sure that you see how different they are.I grew up in the nineties,early two thousands,so goth was the thing.Um,but you can also think of your songwriters,the creatives.They'll,again,they're always that super different person from whatever society is deeming as a norm in a particular time and period.Um,all of your twos,threes,and fours,because they're led by their head.Um,I'm sorry.By their heart,they are feeling,they have a lot of emotions that drive them,but they're also deep down their people pleasers.They want other people to see how helpful they are,see how successful they are,or see how different they are.And so when they're not able to,be seen as whatever version of special and greatness they are by others and pleasing others,they feel ashamed by their character.Um,and so like if I'm not helping enough,then I'm ashamed for my existence.Um,if I'm not achieving that success,if I'm not unique enough and I feel ashamed for not being successful enough or not being unique enough.And so that's kind of that,that trigger for them,um,and where they end up on an inner spiral.For your head centered triad,that is your five,six and sevens.Your fives are known as the investigators.Some people call them the book worms,but frankly,they know a lot.They're like a walking encyclopedia of just knowledge and every decision that they make,they do use facts.They want facts,they want figures.They want the data,the knowledge to make sure that as they move forward in life as they connect with others,it's because of that information that they hold.Your six are known as the loyalist.I kind of think of them like the Mary Poppins,that they have everything.They are overly prepared like,but they also are kind of in that prepared for the worst case scenario of like.It's a sunny day,but I'm still gonna bring my umbrella and my rain boots and probably some skis with me in case we have like a snow avalanche we have to go through.And you're like,we're at the beach,I have questions.Um,but they are very connected to other people by being overly prepared.And then your sevens are known as the enthusiasts.On social media you'll see them called the party animal.They are super spontaneous.They have all the ideas in the world.They always wanna have fun.They don't write anything down though.Um,and so your five,six and sevens,you have a lot of ideas.They gotta connect with that three who will actually help them get it done right.Um,but your five,six and sevens,they're all driven by their ideas,their thoughts,how prepared can I be?How much knowledge can I have?What exciting adventure can I go on next?And if they're not able to lean towards those new fun,knowledge-based connection,um,or you know,party type of things,then they just have an overwhelming sense of fear.And again,it's like that doomsday,the sky is falling type of fear that's driving them.Um,and then your eight nines and ones,those are known as your body or your gut triad.Um,your eights are known as the challengers.I myself was an eight,so if you don't like me,that's probably why.Um,but as an eight,we like to challenge the status quo.We go against the grain.Um,we like to break every norm that people have decided should be a norm and see how far we can bend something as we're going along.Um,your nines are known as the peacemaker.They are really great negotiators,finding the common ground and commonality between everyone and everything.And then your ones are known as the idealist.Um,they see the world as right and wrong,black or white.Good or bad,there is no gray in the middle for them.Over time,they can learn to see that there is a spectrum of right and wrong,but for them it's like I'm pushing everyone to be great and everyone should come along with me because I'm going to the greatness of things or I'm going towards the good thing.Um,and so that's really how they see the world over time.They can teach them themselves to find the middle ground,but naturally in their mind they're like,this is still wrong.Um,in terms of professions,you'll see a lot of lawyers,pastors,teachers as ones.Um,in type two s you'll see a lot of nurture nurses,kind of healthcare workers,um,also,you know,volunteer nonprofit type of people and teachers as twos.Threes are just the top of their game in every single industry.They are always the boss,even if they're22,they manage to end up,you know,the team lead of the interns or whatever it might be.Um,your fours,as I mentioned,kind of the creative ones,singer,songwriters.Your fives will take very operational project management.They're kind of that second in command.Like I know everything that's going on.I know all the fine prints,I've memorized it type of people.Your sixes,you'll also see in a wide variety of professions,but they're really great at connections.So you'll see a lot of them end up again across all industries,but like very sales relationship,oriented type of roles,like think business development,fundraising,um,that kind of thing,or like even a car salesman.Um,your sevens again,can be across any industry,but they're usually the fun person.They're the one that plans all the company outings and the happy hours and that type of thing.Your eights are naturally seen in leadership positions.They will end up at the top,even if they didn't want to be somehow.Um,but they'll end up towards,you know,the C-suite or something of whatever organization they are a part of.Your nines are peacemakers.Um,you'll see them across all different industries,but they do very well themselves as lawyers.Um,if you think of those mediators,negotiators,but also,um,a lot of them will end up in mental health professions coaching,um,that kind of thing because again,they're like even the inner piece that we all need,they can help you kind of navigate what that looks like as well.Um,the eights,nines and ones,as I was talking about before,if they are not able to find the good in something and term challenging people towards the good,um,finding the peace that they want to have or whatever that might look like,they also can look very,uh,angry.And so even your nines,I always joke and say like,don't,don't think that you can kind of roll over on a nine as a peacemaker,cuz they are sandwich between the eights and the ones.Which also leads me to the wing types.Um,and this is a lot.So like,again,focus on what your core type is and not trying to understand the entire diagram.But if you are a nine.You can have strong wings of either,either an eight or a one,and there's always a number that is immediately next to your core number.So if someone tells you,I'm an eight wing four,they do not know the Enneagram.They're just picking something out of the hat and what they want to be.Um,if they are a a four at their core,they can either have a very strong three.Or a five wing,your strong wings can alternate.So I myself am an eight wing seven.However,there have been seasons and for me it's like maybe three to six months where I've seen like my nine wing is shining instead of my seven wing because of whatever.It's kind of just a natural response,like a fight or flight response.You might see your wing change.It's not something that flip flops.You know,every single day it is literally,um,based on a season of life,maybe you're going through a tough situation at home,a work situation.It can even be a positive thing like a marriage or new kids in the house,um,that you might see your wings change as you're adapting to a new situation.But again,you have your core number and then to the immediate left or right,you can have your wings.And then those crazy arrows that start coming out of the diagram are represent your growth or your stress numbers.So at your best as a type eight,you'll reach across the circle.It's usually the one that goes out towards the right or down.Um,You'll look like a two.So as an eight at my best,I become an advocate for others.I'm challenging to create better change,better policy,and helping other people.A,a type one at their best will start to look like a four.And so as they push people towards the good or what is right,they also have really innovative ideas and become really creative in how they go about it.A three at their best will start to look like a six.They'll start to connect and bring in loyalty.They'll use those strengths to really bring people together,create community around whatever a success that they are achieving.You can almost think of it when you start to have like the Women's Association for X,Y,Z or the,you know,nonprofit kind of thing,charity or foundation.Behind a corporate thing,they're the usually the ones,putting those things together.And then you also have your stress number.That means in a season of things are not going so well,and it can even be like in the hour that things are not going so well.How do you kind of revert?So again,using myself as an example,as a type eight,when I'm stressed,it's usually the arrow that's the left or going,um,yeah,going to the left in the circle as an eight.When I'm stressed,I look like a five.And so if I don't know the answer,if I can't fix something,if I can't create the change that I want to see,I will Google,YouTube,probably go get a whole nother degree or certification,but make sure that I find the information that I need to support what I believe should be,uh,changing or happening.Uh,using more examples of five when stressed will,again,reach across the circle.Actually,they kind of go in an opposite direction.They look like a seven.So when they don't have all the knowledge and information,they're just like,let's go have a party.Um,your ones will also do the same thing.So you think of a lawyer,um,you know,going through all,all the things that lawyers can do in terms of litigation and corporate and,um,different things.When they're super stressed,you'll see them um,kind of going to that party animal,maybe college frat bro type of phase,regardless of what age they might be.And so,um,we have our core number,we have that wing,and then you have seasons of growth or times of stress that you can see yourself.So even in one day,you can look like four out of the nine numbers on the Enneagram.And again,it's a lot to take in,but focus on who you are and how you can show up as the best,healthiest version of yourself instead of leading into some of those more negative traits.We all have healthy and unhealthy seasons,and that's how every single type on the Enneagram looks.And so using the eight as an example,again,both Adolf Hitler and Martin Luther King,Jr.are type eights.So you ultimately always get to choose what type of leader you want to be,and that's really how I believe in leveraging the Enneagram,is that at the end of the day,we have the decision to say how we want to show up and be the best version of ourselves.

Wynter Johnson: 

That is so fascinating.Everything you just shared there,I feel like we could spend days and days and days digging into,um,and your,uh,you know,knowing that Hitler and Martin Luther King,Jr.had the same Enneagram number is really fascinating because like you said,you thought,I'm gonna be a number four.This is me,this has to be me.I'm gonna take this test until I get this.So when people are really,when they don't feel like their,their profile suits them,their number doesn't feel like them,what do you recommend?Do you,do you,you know,take the test again?Or do you start to really lean into what this is saying about you and your personality?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so truthfully,you don't need to take this test to know what your Enneagram type is.If you're listening to even the things that I just mentioned,there's something that in your gut you were like,that's me.That's the one that is most like me.Um,but really,expand upon it.If you're feeling like,Hey,I don't think this is my number,are you in a really stressful season of life.A lot of people going through,you know,whatever things life might throw at us,they look to take their Enneagram test in like the worst day,the day you got fired from your job.The day that you had a fight with both your spouse and the kids were acting up like right.You take that worst situation and you're like,let me go sit down and see my Enneagram type.You're probably going to look like that stress number or really unhealthy version of yourself.Instead of taking it in a very neutral season,just take it on a random Thursday,whatever your version of normal is.Some of us live more chaotic lives than others,so whatever feels normal and neutral to you,that's when you should take the Enneagram test.I also don't think that you should take it on the day your fiance proposed of like,Hey,we're getting married now that we're getting married and we're super excited and high on life,let's go find out our Enneagram types.You're both gonna type wrong.And then you're both gonna communicate to each other as the wrong number and adding in those layers and that's really how it works when you use the Enneagram in your business as well.Take it in a state of neutral.Not at the worst,like,you know,horrible sales month type of thing.And also don't take it at,you know,I just got promoted and doubled my bonus or anything like that.Either you find that normal,neutral state so that you can understand,is this me?But also again,if you take the test and you're like,I don't think this is me,start reading the other numbers,right?I said,when I first took it,I looked at all the answers.Read through all of them.If you're looking at the good seasons,the bad seasons,the good days,the bad days,and just like the weird,boring days,it also talks about how you relate to others.There is more information out on the Enneagram in like intimate relationships than there are in working relationships,but you spend probably just as much,if not more time with the people you work with than the people you live with on a true daily basis.And so those communication habits,work the exact same way.Understanding someone works the exact same way.And so read through all nine of them and be like,this is the one that I feel like is really,truly,and resonates most with me.Um,and wherever you are using it as a starting point,it's for the focus of self-awareness and growth.It's not just taking a quiz to take a quiz,it's to say,I'm taking this to have a foundation to know where I want to improve in my life or business next.

Allie Nickle: 

So I have a question to continue on that.What do you recommend?Like what are the next steps once you take it and you say,okay,these numbers do fit me well,what do you do with that?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so the Enneagram will speak to some of your triggers,some of the things that um,will literally frustrate and anger you.And if you're realizing like,Hey,I don't like that thing about me.Maybe you like how angry you are.If that's you,then do nothing.Right?But if you're like,I wanna be a kinder person,I don't wanna snap so quickly,I,I wanna make sure that I can improve X,Y,Z.Those are the things to understand and unpack,and then you can accompany that with go find a professional development book.Go through an Aspyn learning course,like find the content that you think is really going to help you with what's next.Find a podcast that's going to help you.Maybe it is a conversation with your actual therapist to say,okay,this is what I've noticed about myself and I wanna become a better version.How can I help?There's also those trusted individuals that you should have in your network,and so you can sit down.With a friend or family member and say,Hey,I noticed this about myself.What are your thoughts and how you think I can be a better version of myself?Again,the whole point of any personality tool,the Enneagram,Human Design,DISC,Myers-Briggs,it's one self-awareness and then two growth.And so that,that next step is finding out where you want to improve next in your life.Maybe your home life is perfect and you need to improve things at work.Maybe your work life is perfect,but you haven't washed the dishes in10years.Like what are those things that you really want to work on?And that's where you start to focus.

Wynter Johnson: 

So once you know your Enneagram number and you really understand your personality,I can see myself using that very differently as a mom and a partner,an employee,a friend,you know,whatever it is.How do you recommend people can lean in and use their Enneagram number as entrepreneurs and growing their business?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,well that's my favorite thing to talk about for sure.And so again,that first piece is always that self-awareness.I have to recognize,am I showing up in my business the way that I want to ultimately be seen?At the end of the day,perception does become reality.No matter how much I wish I could undo that.In an American society,that's the fact.And so am I showing up and are people perceiving me the way that I want them to see me?Are they understanding my value?Am I articulating that value in a way that it's actually doing,you know,better things for my business?Am I,I love to use it in the marketing aspect for sure.I have said it very,and that's actually one of the reasons that it became a part of my business.I was like,I'm a type eight.You can literally,if you ever watch the show scandal,I'm an Olivia Pope.When I walk into a situation,I gather all the information,I think for30seconds,and then I'm like,this is what we're doing.I hope you all jump on board.And so if you understand that about yourself,then you can start to turn around and communicate that exact thing to other people.If I say that to someone and that's considering me as their coach,they're either like,I want someone who's going to help me fix things,or I never want someone to help me fix things.Like if you don't want things fixed,I'm not your person and I wish you well,and I hope you find the person that is for you.And so even in your marketing,when you're saying,I now know myself,I now understand and I know that I can help you because of this.Particular trait that I have,you can then turn around and show people,Hey,this is something I know about myself and this can help you to decide am I the person that you want?Right?Coke is red and Pepsi is blue.People get to choose and people will go in all out battles of which one is better.We did it with N'SYNC and Backstreet Boys when I was growing up.Like everyone picks their side and they're willing to like die on that hill for no reason.I will still tell you instinct is better.Um,in case anyone's wondering.But what is that thing that you can say in your marketing?In your sales when you're actually working with your clients,how do you deliver that information in a way that resonates for them?And if you're upfront on the marketing and sales part of saying,this is who I am,this is how I show up,this is what you can get to know about me.And I'm not saying open up your deep,dark secrets.I'm saying let them understand your leadership style,your communication style.What are the things that excite you?Do you have common core values?That's the stuff that you're leading with in your marketing.So by the time they've already signed and paid to work with you,as on the client delivery side,they're like,yep,she promised this,and that's exactly what she's giving us.And so whether it's even in,in your products,right?Are you someone who's like really bland and boring?I would say don't have neon light signs on your social media and then.People walk in the doors,you're like,here's my neutral palette.Right?So the whole spectrum from beginning to end,from lead generation through,you know,the end of a closing on a sale are people getting to know and understand you.You'll often hear,especially an entrepreneurship about the no like and trust factor,and the Enneagram helps you to know yourself.You get to explore and celebrate the parts that you like.You get to fix and work on the things that you don't like about yourself.And at the end of that journey you'll learn to trust yourself because you'll know who you are deep down inside,not the mask that we have been putting on for however many years we've been on this earth,but like I truly know,like,and trust myself.And that example of who you show is how people will get to know,like,and trust you as the business owner that they want to invest in.I think getting

Wynter Johnson: 

to know who you really are personally and professionally,your product,you as you know,a leader,as an individual,is a really interesting place to be in,in life and to be comfortable with that and to be able to say,you know,my product and my company are for you if you know X,Y,z,like you said,but it's not for you if x,Y,Z and to be able to really get comfortable with saying,my product is not for you and I am okay with that,is a really interesting place to be.And you know,I've led a lot of salespeople or worked with a lot of salespeople who will make it seem as if their product is for everyone all the time.And I really appreciate those who can say,you know what?Thank you,but we're not a fit.This isn't gonna work for you.Here's what I would recommend instead.You know,so to get to that place takes a lot of work though,you know,what are some of the steps people can take of,like,I,I know my company looks like this,but in my head,maybe it's looked differently.How do you bridge that gap and get really comfortable and,and kind of sit in that uncomfortable space for a while while you get there?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,well the Enneagram is for everyone,every single person.Literally.I don't care who you are or where you live over the age of16,cuz your brain is doing a whole lot of things before16.But after16,you can take the Enneagram and truly get to unpack and understand and know yourself.However,me,as your Enneagram coach,I,I might not be able to help you if we don't have things in common.I like helping women.I like helping people who have come out of corporate environments because that's the environment that I came out of as well.And so it's not saying that like Coke and Pepsi are for everyone,but they started selling it in the US.When Amazon started,it is now for everyone,everywhere,all the time,but when Amazon started,it was just books.It was like,who wants to buy a used book for$4and we'll send it to you?And so it's not about saying like,by the end of this,I want to be for everyone cuz yes,ultimately at the end of the day,that could be the case.But who I help with the Enneagram is a very specific population.Not because the Enneagram isn't for everyone,but because like I personally as that business owner,one can't serve everyone but like,let's make room for some other people to do this same work.But I also wanna make sure that I'm helping someone who's actually going to see value.I will gladly take a check from anyone who wants to send it to me.But in the exchange of coaching,I wanna make sure that your life is transformed and that you have become an actually better version of yourself.And I can't help every single person do that because maybe we've had different life experiences.Maybe you speak French and I speak English,like we're gonna have a whole language barrier and Google Translate is gonna make it a very complicated relationship.So it could be simple little things like Google Translate,but it can also be,again,my personality,like I am a lot and I'm very confident at this point in telling you like that's a great thing.But I also know that that's not for everyone.

Wynter Johnson: 

I love that you say that and you own that,like I am a lot.I feel like that sometimes too,so I'm with you.

Kristen Edwards: 

It took a while to own it.Like I've always thought that I was a lot,but I was very like sad by that and discouraged and now I'm like,it's what it is.Hope you guys like it.

Wynter Johnson: 

Oh my gosh.Once you find your people who appreciate that,you're a lot though.I mean,it just really opens up and you're a lot in a different way.You can be a lot in a way that's really positive and engaging and helps others or,or you can be a lot in a different way.But,um,I love that you're aware of that and share that and own that.Um,okay,so question for you.I have multiple books here on the Enneagram.And I'm not quite sure after this where to start.What resources do you recommend go along with this test?Do you have favorite books,websites,podcasts?I mean,Allie,asked the question what next,but like literally physically,what next can we look at?

Kristen Edwards: 

There's a million resources.They're all great.So if you're like a true nerd,then just like go for it.Um,I think in terms of understanding the Enneagram and kind of really foundational books,I think Ian Cron,um,kind of does the best in just like the general personal development,um,type of things.And then there is a book by Ginger Lapid-Bogda I might be saying her name wrong,um,but it's literally called Bringing Out the Best in Yourself at Work.So I can send you links to kind of two of those books that I like.I think you start your Enneagram journey very much with the personal development.You have to know yourself,you have to gain that kind of natural self-awareness,and then you start to bring it into your leadership over time.Um,if you're an overachiever,you can probably do both in like six months,but it is a lifelong journey.I'm still unpacking layers to the Enneagram five years later,um,as I've been,you know,doing this and working in it.But I think Ginger does a really great job of the combination of the Enneagram in a professional setting,um,working through teams,being a leader,um,whether it's emerging leaders or established kind of C-suite,you know,type of people.She has a couple things that are about,you know,being an entrepreneur as well that's a little bit smaller.But I think at the end of the day,whether you're an entrepreneur or you're working in a kind of traditional work environment,we are all interacting with people.Thank you,Zoom for making me not have to like put on dress pants when I do it,but we are all working and connecting with other people and at the end of the day,it comes self-awareness and then that communication.And are you communicating in a way that resonates with other people?Because that perception,it's not just like,well,I didn't mean to be mean,like,cool,your intentions are whatever.But did they understand what you were trying to say?Did they receive it in the right way?Um,as you become a manager if you have a team of other kind of direct reports in the work that you are doing I think it is helpful,again,once you've established your own personal and professional understanding of yourself to then start to understand your team.So ask them,Hey guys,this is a tool.I would love to know your Enneagram type.You cannot mandate it because it does put a pressure on someone and they will test wrong if they have that like standing over my shoulder waiting to get a particular grade.Um,every type can work with another type,but it always helps to say,Hey,this is how the two of us will communicate in a way that we can share our values and understand.Um,and as a recruiter,I will say,never hire someone based on their Enneagram type.Hire them because of the skills,the natural stuff that you understood about them after they've been onboarded and trained.Then you can add the Enneagram in to kind of your work and making sure that you manage them effectively.But don't hire someone because they're type three and type three's get stuff done.Because if they hate you,they're still gonna quit at the end of the day,if your personality styles don't match.Um,and don't say like,oh,this person's a type eight,they think outside the box,like maybe you need to think outside the box to double or triple your gross revenue.So it's always a helpful thing.So don't make decisions because of someone's type or where you think they should be,but once you've taken that time to say,we have a foundation of a relationship,you can then strengthen that working relationship by knowing the Enneagram type after.

Wynter Johnson: 

That might be one of the most important things that I picked up from this,is using the Enneagram or if your company chooses to use a different tool,to manage and educate and grow instead of hiring and firing.There is a lot of fear around personality tests in the workplace,and I think when you're asked to take one,whether you've been there for a week or a decade,you think,why are they making me do this?Are they trying to figure out if I'm right for my job?Even if you have a proven track record,you know,you know that this might not be the case.There's a fear of how these might get used.And how do you,have you seen companies as a recruiter use these in a way that they probably shouldn't?Or do you find,um,from your experience that they really are a great growth tool?

Kristen Edwards: 

I.So as a recruiter,never use them and I will like literally go banging on every rooftop to tell people.I think this is a horrible tool when it comes to hiring.On the retention side,on the training and development side of an employee,I think these tools can be really useful.Um,there's always that bad apple who just ruins things for people.And so like unfortunately,there's that person who,you know,their ex was a six,and so they decided all sixes were bads and we were gonna like wipe the slate clean of them.I'm like,no,your ex was bad.That does not mean all sixes are a bad type.And so recognizing,again,was that person in a healthy or unhealthy part of their life,when your paths crossed,um,and don't make a blanket statement that all of whatever type comes across in a particular way.Also,if you start to think that all sixes are something,or all fours are something that's a level of,you know,self-work that you need to do and kind of work through,because now you're being prejudiced against the type.Right.And that's gonna work the same way of,you know,all women are bad,or all black people are this or whatever.If you're saying all of a particular number is a certain way as well.So don't,don't be that person.

Wynter Johnson: 

We will not be that person.

Kristen Edwards: 

Great.

Wynter Johnson: 

Okay.So,um,I have one last question.Then,Allie,we can jump to any last questions you have,but what advice do you give to someone who is just starting out on this journey,whether it's mental wellness,emotional heal,wellness,understanding their personality,someone is at the very beginning stages of this.As a coach,what advice do you have for people?

Kristen Edwards: 

Take your time.It does not,I think,like normal people,especially because we have microwaves and instant pots and drive-throughs,we think that something should be answered and fixed in like30seconds,and30minutes is way too long.Your personal development journey is lifelong.It's probably gonna be30plus,30more years of work that you're doing,and so it's that foundation of taking an Enneagram test or just starting.It's just understanding and gaining awareness.You never have to stay there,take your time day by day and work towards the better version of yourself that you want to become,but it's,it's a process and it will be a lifelong process.

Wynter Johnson: 

I love that answer because it's very consistent with what we've heard in our last few episodes,and I think there's a,there's a meaning behind that and that,and something we should all definitely,definitely pay attention to.

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,it's a hard one,but it's a true one.

Wynter Johnson: 

It is,um,right.Allie?

Allie Nickle: 

Uh,I mean,I have so many questions that we could dig into on for hours and hours,but I guess,um,one of my biggest questions,and I only ask this because I took the Enneagram a couple different times in the last couple days leading up to us talking to you.What do you say to the people who score high on several numbers?Um,like how do you determine which one is your core and or is it one of those,take it a couple times in different situations on different days when you're feeling different things and kind of see which one balances out or what.What do you suggest there?

Kristen Edwards: 

Yeah,so I would,you know,most times people say like,I have two numbers that scored really high.Occasionally three,I would start reading the details of those two numbers,right?Like Truity will give you literally scrolling worth of a website to say like,this is a type seven,this is what it looks like,this is what excites you,this is what motivates you,triggers you,et cetera,and start to look at those things.Um,I,I feel like when you land upon your Enneagram type and you are reading it,If you're not crying,your insides are crying.Like it,it just,it in a good way.It's like a gut punch of like,it gets me like,how did you know?Um,and not even in this like weird psychic way,but like,these are all my thoughts.Were you reading my diary?Type of,how did you find out this information?And so again,whatever the test says is more abstract in giving you a type.As you read through those details,you'll start to truly understand if those two numbers come up adjacent to each other,like a seven or an eight or a two or a three or even a nine and a one.That probably means one is your core and one is a very strong,strong wing.Um,eights are not fun people,but I have a very strong seven wing.My seven is very strong,and so that could be part of it if you're seeing those two numbers right next to each other.So if you're taking it and you're saying you took it in kind of back to back days,that season of life that you're in might look the same.And so are you in a growth season or a stress season,that that could be one of the numbers that's testing high in the moment as well.I know that's not an answer for you,I'm sorry,but

Allie Nickle: 

No,no,that's great and that you're right on.Um,I'm super excited to dig into this more and um,I'm excited for the resources you recommended as well.Uh,I think both Wynter and I are gonna go and start digging into this right after this.

Kristen Edwards: 

Such a beautiful rabbit hole.

Wynter Johnson: 

So badly wanna grab the book that's next to me and start reading.

Allie Nickle: 

Yes,me too.All right.Well thank you so much for tuning into the See You in the AM podcast.We are your hosts,Allie Nickle and Wynter Johnson.And a very special thanks to Kristen for taking the time to chat with us today.Our goal at Aspyn Market is to make mental health,self-guided therapy and coaching resources available to everyone,and we just skimmed the surface today.If anything we discussed today resonated with you and you're interested in learning more about your mental health,check out our app Aspyn Coaching,where you can get unlimited access to hundreds of hours of self-guided therapy and coaching from our team of Aspyn Coaches,just head over to Aspyn Market,that's Aspyn Market with y uh,to start your seven day free trial.Now get full access to all of our features for seven days,including featured daily videos,guided journeys,journal prompts,downloadable resources and exercises.The path to a happier,healthier you starts here.Until our next episode,we hope you have a wonderful day and we'll see you in the AM.